It's time to stop believing in fairy tales.
Credit: Association of American Atheists | ©Association of American Atheists (logo used with permission)
In light of the holiday season I’m going to talk a little bit about god. There is an argument often posited by religious bulldogs that claims it's impossible to be a true atheist. The reason, they say, is that you can't scientifically disprove the existence of god; therefore, at most, you're but a very good, devout agnostic.
This is true. From a purely scientific standpoint you can't disprove the existence of god. Mostly because he doesn't exist, and it's impossible to disprove the existence of something that doesn't exist. But ultimately they're right. All atheists really are merely 'good' agnostics.
But this logical weapon cuts both ways. In bringing the argument to a scientific battleground, the religious mouth foamers have committed a major error: science, it's our turf. Us atheists. See, it's like an atheist arguing Christianity using biblical quotations.
Were you and I to get into an argument, you defending your irrational belief system, and me defending atheism, if at any point I quoted you a biblical passage I will have indirectly validated your book’s claim to be the source of ultimate truth. Because that's what the bible purports to be. You claim the Bible, or Qur'an, or Torah, Vedic texts, or whatever, to be the source of ultimate and absolute truth in the Universe.
If your holy book is the source of all ultimate truth, does that make the scientific progress allowing the existence of your McDonald's cheeseburger and giant SUV a lie?
If at any point in this discussion you mention science or the scientific method by talking about proof, however, you've indirectly validated our argument by the same rule: that science is the source of ultimate truth. In short, that man began as a green funky smelling goo billions of years ago, that he crawled out of the ocean flapping and gasping for air to support his carbon based frame, that he swung through the trees and ate the lice off his mate's hairy back, and that he eventually grew and oversized brain that allowed him to become bipedal and develop complex communication structures.
This is true. From a purely scientific standpoint you can't disprove the existence of god. Mostly because he doesn't exist, and it's impossible to disprove the existence of something that doesn't exist. But ultimately they're right. All atheists really are merely 'good' agnostics.
But this logical weapon cuts both ways. In bringing the argument to a scientific battleground, the religious mouth foamers have committed a major error: science, it's our turf. Us atheists. See, it's like an atheist arguing Christianity using biblical quotations.
Were you and I to get into an argument, you defending your irrational belief system, and me defending atheism, if at any point I quoted you a biblical passage I will have indirectly validated your book’s claim to be the source of ultimate truth. Because that's what the bible purports to be. You claim the Bible, or Qur'an, or Torah, Vedic texts, or whatever, to be the source of ultimate and absolute truth in the Universe.
If your holy book is the source of all ultimate truth, does that make the scientific progress allowing the existence of your McDonald's cheeseburger and giant SUV a lie?
If at any point in this discussion you mention science or the scientific method by talking about proof, however, you've indirectly validated our argument by the same rule: that science is the source of ultimate truth. In short, that man began as a green funky smelling goo billions of years ago, that he crawled out of the ocean flapping and gasping for air to support his carbon based frame, that he swung through the trees and ate the lice off his mate's hairy back, and that he eventually grew and oversized brain that allowed him to become bipedal and develop complex communication structures.
Comments
Unfortunately I wrote this material when I was a younger man. Less reasonable, less informed, far more angry. My views have moderated quite a bit and I've realized the futility and immaturity of such polemics. I've distanced myself from this as best I can. However, there's no way for me to delete these posts. I would if I could, but this content is now owned by Associated Content. Instead I simply removed all my personal information and wished it to go away. That's why the name is John Doe.
J.
(Guest)
(Guest)
10/13/2009
As a complete unbeliever who dismisses all notions of any kind of a "god" that has ever been defined, let me clearly state my opinion:
The author is a self absorbed ass that doesn't come close to comprehending the logic he claims to master and it is people like this, on both sides of the "issue", that degrade any meaningful discussion to mindless nonsense.
Very rarely have I been so thoroughly revolted by someone attempting to argue a position that, in theory, I agree with. You have no business authoring anything and would server atheists and agnostics well by completely disassociating yourself from them.
Andy
(Guest)
(Guest)
07/28/2009
wow... people are dumb. im sorry but people crack me up when they think theres something in our clouds and below us. oh, theres something up there. i'll tell you that. but you can bet your life it isnt close to a god or human...
I find it pretty cowardly to spout off with such a big mouth in non-logical ways, while using the name of "John Doe." Both are so original. I would like a scientific explanation for miracles performed in the name of God. I think that some day, no matter how any of us believe, we will all be held accountable for both our words and our deeds.
occams mach 5 with comfort strip
(Guest)
(Guest)
11/12/2008
OK Angela Kastelic so using your application of 'what came before that?' my question would be 'what became before g-d?' Who created g-d? I guess g-d's god created him.
"And when such claims are extraordinary, that is, revolutionary in their implications for established scientific generalizations already accumulated and verified, we must demand extraordinary proof."
-Marcello Truzzi RIP
I will respond to you with an adaptation of the argument formulated by St. Thomas Aquinas in the middle ages. Where did the world come from? Let's say the Big Bang Theory. Alright, but where did the energy for said Big Bang come from? Well, maybe all of a sudden there was this molecule that exploded. Alright, but where did the molecule come from? Um...can't answer you that one. There had to be something that created it. A Supreme Being. And you can't have Supreme Beings creating one another and going back and back and back, because you have to start from somewhere. And that somewhere is God. Moreover, one of my favourite quotes is from St. Augustine of Hippo. This is a man who searched until he was over 30 years old for answers to ultimate questions. He found what he was looking for in Catholicism. He wrote, "You have made us for Yourself, O Lord, and our hearts are restless until they find rest in You."
Dear Torrey,
You equivocate on the term science, your remarks about people who do not share your view are just cheap shots and not valid (ad hominem), and you erect a straw man as to the Christian world view. So could you please define what you mean by science, clarify what you mean by the christian view, and remember that name calling is not a substitute for a good argument.
Rick Blalock
(Guest)
(Guest)
12/25/2006
non sequitur, so I'm guessing that is your reason for not attending college? Keep telling yourself that while your working at your menial job (if you have one). Educated people know how to make less educated people work like robots, just look at the sweat shops in China, those guys are almost too good at what they do! Since you are putting college down (probably because of jealousy), I would expect that you NEVER take pills for anything, don't go to a hospital for anything (because doctors learned what they know in college), and never buy fruit or vegetables in a grocery store (because most of them are genetic clones which are perfectly safe and modified by extremely smart scientists). Perhaps your brain has no idea of what life would be like if it weren't for people who are much smarter than yourself.
non sequitur
(Guest)
(Guest)
12/25/2006
College (kah-lidge) - a euphemised institution solely focused on subliminal brainwashing through so called expression of freedom of thought in turn making an individual believe they have acquired such esoteric awareness which amounts to nothing but mere fabrication and conjecture (take the dinosaurs...all scientists found were bits and pieces of remains...fer cryin out loud one can only imagine the error in how real dinosaurs, if they ever existed look like) geez, kudos to the fabricators out there
Rick Blalock
(Guest)
(Guest)
12/25/2006
(cont) so special? If we are supposedly made in the form of god, then why are many of our bodily features (ie our eyes and lungs) far inferior to those of other animals (ie most birds)? Ever since our ancestors had a big enough brain to be able to 'wonder about things' (which was around 50 million years ago when a proven gene that is responsible for large jaws was eliminated by natural selection that allowed brain matter to increase in size) we have wanted to know the answers to everything we wonder. When something was inexplicable, thus the hypothesis of some higher power.... Oh and from taking a psychopathology course, i learned about the disorder that causes people to believe that they are 'god'. perhaps jesus... oh and perhaps the 'virgin' mary got knocked up and didnt want to tell anyone and people actually believed the 'immaculate conception' because of a lack of science... people would laugh at something like that today!
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